MacSpeech Dictate Amazon reviews - comments?

The four reviews all give it one star, the lowest possible rating.  All
consider it a Beta at this point.  Most recommend to wait for a later
version.


http://www.amazon.com/review/produc..._dp_all_helpful
?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDat
eDescending
--
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.

Paul Fuchs wrote:

> The four reviews all give it one star, the lowest possible rating.  All
> consider it a Beta at this point.  Most recommend to wait for a later
> version.

You can dismiss three of the four reviews out of hand, because none of
those reviewers had used Dictate! What kind of a "review" is that!? Two
of them couldn't install it for some reason and the third was still
waiting for his copy. Those who failed to install it projected their
experience on the entire population. I do no such thing. I say that
Dictate _can_ work, because it works for me. I don't guarantee that it
will work for anyone else.

That leaves "M. Kirsch 'Cyber Reviewer.'" His written review more or
less parallels my experience, except that I haven't had any crashes
(I've been using Dictate for more than a month.) But I would give the
software five stars for out-of-the-box accuracy and deduct 1-1/2 stars
because it is not full featured _yet_ . Three and one-half stars for
now.

Look, what MacSpeech did was bold and brave. They tacitly admitted that
they could not match the accuracy of Dragon Naturally Speaking with
iListen. Instead of closing up shop they licensed the DNS speech engine
and made it work as well as it does on Windoze in their first release.
The only thing it lacks is features, which are coming. And they gave
iListen owners an upgrade deal. What's the problem, whiners excepted?

Search the archive and you will find a post I made using Dictate --
CSMS or CSMA, I don't remember which.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

In article <1iegga7. 1j56fnt5mfp5mN%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher
.oink>,
paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink (Paul Fuchs) wrote:

> The four reviews all give it one star, the lowest possible
> rating.  All consider it a Beta at this point.  Most
> recommend to wait for a later version.

A few points to consider if you are trying to decide
whether to wait, or not.

MacSpeech Dictate 1.0  "Out-of-the-box" is more accurate
than their previous "mature" software named iListen.


My first test after I received my copy yielded slightly
better than 97% "raw accuracy".

Here is the _uncorrected_ NG post I created, it has
two mistakes:

(minus the asterisk lines, of course)
 ****************************************
**********************
Just received MacSpeech Dictate Monday, slapped it
into my Mac, dictated this post.

I used the supplied headset. Noticed that MacSpeech made another
great decision by including an external sound card in their package.
It is the identical brand of "translator" I used with Dragon.

Well accuracy of text is almost as good as Dragon.

It is 4 AM now, so am going to hit the sack.

We'll wring it out some more after I grab some sleep.

Mark -
 ****************************************
************************


Two mistakes in the post above.

1)  "Well accuracy"  S/B  "Raw accuracy"
2)  "We'll wring it out"  S/B  "Will wring it out"

Two (mistakes) divided by 78 (words) equals .02564 inaccuracy,
or slightly better than 97% accuracy.



You are correct, in my view, in considering it a beta release,
despite Chuck Roger's protestations to the contrary.

It was rushed to market to take advantage of the MacWorld expo'.

MacSpeech justifies that decision for two reasons.

They desperately needed an influx of money, otherwise they
would risk going out of business altogether.

They (correctly) figured that their existing loyal customer base
would rather have an incomplete product in their hands NOW,
instead of having to wait a year to get a fully complete product.


Properly completed, MacSpeech Dictate should be very nearly as good
as Dragon NaturallySpeaking.

Below is an example of the raw accuracy of my
Dragon NaturallySpeaking 9.5 (medical version) software,
which costs $1,200
(I run it on my MacBook Pro, in a Vista partition)


Example using Dragon -
------------------------------------------------
X-Linked agammaglobulinemia (Bruton's agammaglobulinemia)
is a hereditary immunodeficiency disorder due to an
abnormality in the X chromosome and resulting in few are
no B lymphocytes and very low levels of antibodies.
-----------------------------------------------


Its raw accuracy was a bit worse than 97%

(31 words with one mistake)


"resulting in few are no"  S/B  "resulting in few or no"


The decision is yours.  If you have an extensive background
in using speech-to-text software, you may very well prefer
to wait until MacSpeech adds the missing correction
and spelling features. (could take a year)

Keep in mind that you might have to use Windows, meanwhile.
(ugh, what a horrible thought)

...if you want to seriously play with text-to-speech software.



DISCLAIMER -
Your milage may vary from mine, because I have been using
speech recognition software for years, so am aware of most of
the pitfalls involved in using that technology.

Mark-

OK.  I am going to buy it because I am over 60 and can't afford to wait
much longer.  But I am reserving the right to whine on this forum :-)

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:

> Paul Fuchs wrote:
> 
>
> You can dismiss three of the four reviews out of hand, because none of
> those reviewers had used Dictate! What kind of a "review" is that!? Two
> of them couldn't install it for some reason and the third was still
> waiting for his copy. Those who failed to install it projected their
> experience on the entire population. I do no such thing. I say that
> Dictate _can_ work, because it works for me. I don't guarantee that it
> will work for anyone else.
>
> That leaves "M. Kirsch 'Cyber Reviewer.'" His written review more or
> less parallels my experience, except that I haven't had any crashes
> (I've been using Dictate for more than a month.) But I would give the
> software five stars for out-of-the-box accuracy and deduct 1-1/2 stars
> because it is not full featured _yet_ . Three and one-half stars for
> now.
>
> Look, what MacSpeech did was bold and brave. They tacitly admitted that
> they could not match the accuracy of Dragon Naturally Speaking with
> iListen. Instead of closing up shop they licensed the DNS speech engine
> and made it work as well as it does on Windoze in their first release.
> The only thing it lacks is features, which are coming. And they gave
> iListen owners an upgrade deal. What's the problem, whiners excepted?
>
> Search the archive and you will find a post I made using Dictate --
> CSMS or CSMA, I don't remember which.
>
> Davoud


--
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.

On Mar 27, 2:02=A0pm, Mark Conrad <non...@urbusiness.invalid> wrote:
> In article <1iegga7. 1j56fnt5mfp5mN%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher
.oink>,
> =A0paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink (Paul Fuchs) wrote:
> 
>
> A few points to consider if you are trying to decide
> whether to wait, or not.
>
> MacSpeech Dictate1.0 =A0"Out-of-the-box" is more accurate
> than their previous "mature" software named iListen.
>
> My first test after I received my copy yielded slightly
> better than 97% "raw accuracy".
>
> Here is the _uncorrected_ NG post I created, it has
> two mistakes:
>
> (minus the asterisk lines, of course)
>  ****************************************
**********************
> Just receivedMacSpeech DictateMonday, slapped it
> into my Mac, dictated this post.
>
> I used the supplied headset. Noticed that MacSpeech made another
> great decision by including an external sound card in their package.
> It is the identical brand of "translator" I used with Dragon.
>
> Well accuracy of text is almost as good as Dragon.
>
> It is 4 AM now, so am going to hit the sack.
>
> We'll wring it out some more after I grab some sleep.
>
> Mark -
>  ****************************************
************************
>
> Two mistakes in the post above.
>
> 1) =A0"Well accuracy" =A0S/B =A0"Raw accuracy"
> 2) =A0"We'll wring it out" =A0S/B =A0"Will wring it out"
>
> Two (mistakes) divided by 78 (words) equals .02564 inaccuracy,
> or slightly better than 97% accuracy.
>
> You are correct, in my view, in considering it a beta release,
> despite Chuck Roger's protestations to the contrary.
>
> It was rushed to market to take advantage of the MacWorld expo'.
>
> MacSpeech justifies that decision for two reasons.
>
> They desperately needed an influx of money, otherwise they
> would risk going out of business altogether.
>
> They (correctly) figured that their existing loyal customer base
> would rather have an incomplete product in their hands NOW,
> instead of having to wait a year to get a fully complete product.
>
> Properly completed,MacSpeech Dictateshould be very nearly as good
> as Dragon NaturallySpeaking.
>
> Below is an example of the raw accuracy of my
> Dragon NaturallySpeaking 9.5 (medical version) software,
> which costs $1,200 =A0
> (I run it on my MacBook Pro, in a Vista partition)
>
> Example using Dragon -
> ------------------------------------------------
> X-Linked agammaglobulinemia (Bruton's agammaglobulinemia)
> is a hereditary immunodeficiency disorder due to an
> abnormality in the X chromosome and resulting in few are =A0
> no B lymphocytes and very low levels of antibodies.
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> Its raw accuracy was a bit worse than 97%
>
> (31 words with one mistake)
>
> "resulting in few are no" =A0S/B =A0"resulting in few or no"
>
> The decision is yours. =A0If you have an extensive background
> in using speech-to-text software, you may very well prefer
> to wait until MacSpeech adds the missing correction
> and spelling features. (could take a year)
>
> Keep in mind that you might have to use Windows, meanwhile.
> (ugh, what a horrible thought)
>
> ...if you want to seriously play with text-to-speech software.
>
> DISCLAIMER -
> =A0 =A0Your milage may vary from mine, because I have been using
> speech recognition software for years, so am aware of most of
> the pitfalls involved in using that technology.
>
> Mark-

I would just like to say a couple of things.

First, MacSpeech was in no way in danger of going out of business.
iListen sales were at the highest point ever, with sales increasing in
numbers almost month-to-month. That having been said, we reached a
point several months ago where we had to make a decision on what our
development path would look like in the future. I have provided more
detail on our reasoning elsewhere, but suffice it to say we determined
going with the Dragon engine - despite the fact it required we raise
the price of the software - was the best choice for everyone.

Second, those Amazon reviews certainly are troubling. It would be nice
if some of you who have rebutted them here would also do so on Amazon.
That would certainly help us out, as well as help dispel confusion. As
Davoud said, three of the reviews weren't even reviews.

Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist
MacSpeech, Inc.

On Mar 28, 8:16=A0am, "chuck.rog...@gmail.com" <chuck.rog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mar 27, 2:02=A0pm, Mark Conrad <non...@urbusiness.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> I would just like to say a couple of things.
>
> First, MacSpeech was in no way in danger of going out of business.
> iListen sales were at the highest point ever, with sales increasing in
> numbers almost month-to-month. That having been said, we reached a
> point several months ago where we had to make a decision on what our
> development path would look like in the future. I have provided more
> detail on our reasoning elsewhere, but suffice it to say we determined
> going with the Dragon engine - despite the fact it required we raise
> the price of the software - was the best choice for everyone.
>
> Second, those Amazon reviews certainly are troubling. It would be nice
> if some of you who have rebutted them here would also do so on Amazon.
> That would certainly help us out, as well as help dispel confusion. As
> Davoud said, three of the reviews weren't even reviews.
>
> Chuck Rogers, Chief Evangelist
> MacSpeech, Inc.

My crossgrade copy of MacSpeech Dictate came a few days ago.  I was
one of the lucky ones with a working copy.  As a "founder" of iListen
who bought version 1 in 2001 and continually upgraded because I wanted
to see this product working, I still couldn't make iListen work well
enough to use it.

MacSpeech Dictate worked right out of the box, there was less than 10
minutes of voice training.  The accuracy is amazing.  I have a sharp
clear voice, mind you.  The program isn't recognizing my husband's
voice for whom I have maintained this on-going interest in voice-to-
text.  He still can't make Dictate work because disability has changed
the timbre of his voice.

The other couple of things that people should know is that they should
try Dictate without a microphone.  I have equal accuracy using Dictate
by speaking directly to my MacBook as I do using the MacSpeech
recommended headset (an earlier version from iListen days, not the one
included with the program.)

Those who are buying MacSpeech Dictate for the first time, never
having had iListen, should know that there are dictation and control
commands from iListen that work on Dictate.  Why they weren't included
in a PDF with Dictate as they were in iListen, is beyond
understanding.  The major thing that is missing in Dictate is the
ability to change into a Spelling mode in order to spell words that
are unique or not understood by the program, like my name.

If any one wishes a copy of the iListen 1.8 commands, your can email
me offline and I will send you the PDF.

I know that I am following on the comments from Chuck Rogers - so here
you go, Chuck.  Why weren't the commands included in the package (or
was it just previous iListen users that didn't get this information)
and if the commands weren't included with new copies of Dictate, why
aren't they on the website for downloading?

Now I am going to move over to Amazon and see if I can raise you some
support there.

Chief Supporter
Frangelica

In article
<0c6efb02-272a-4340-bcf2-6506dfa69881@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
frangelicafrangelica@gmail.com wrote:

> I know that I am following on the comments from Chuck Rogers - so here
> you go, Chuck.  Why weren't the commands included in the package (or
> was it just previous iListen users that didn't get this information)
> and if the commands weren't included with new copies of Dictate, why
> aren't they on the website for downloading?
>
> Now I am going to move over to Amazon and see if I can raise you some
> support there.
>
> Chief Supporter
> Frangelica

Good for you, Frangelica, I like 'glass-half-full' reports
like yours, they encourage Mac users to try this newly
available Mac speech technology.

(for Mac users that is, not for PC users,
who already have excellent speech tools)

That said, it is absolutely critical that new users
have access to all the documentation available that can
help them master the glitches, gotchas, idiosyncrasies,
quirks, and other molehills they will surely trip over
in their attempts to get "acceptable" performance
out of MacSpeech Dictate.


As regards Chuck, he claims that MacSpeech no longer jumps
when he barks.<g>

They should jump, because Chuck has his ear to the ground
when it comes to the frustrating issues that bug those
loyal customers who have stood by MacSpeech for years.

...stood by MacSpeech despite their inferior past products,
and decided tendency to ignore their own customers when it
comes to  _which_  features are most important.

But there I go, tending to look at a half-empty glass.

Beating up MacSpeech will get us nowhere.

What is needed most right now is a free-for-all "place"
where MacSpeech Dictate "issues" can be discussed,
such things as "workarounds" to get the most out of the
present beta version of 'Dictate, while we are spinning
our wheels waiting for MacSpeech to upgrade the product to
something that can compete head-to-head with Dragon.

We need a non-moderated forum where dirty laundry can be
hung out to dry, and where new users can get valuable tips
about how to solve their most pressing speech problems.

I suggest "commandeering" an already existing (unused)
Usenet NG for this purpose, one named:  comp.speech.users

That NG started out great, was a fine meeting place for
Dragon PC users, but was recently destroyed by a nasty
feud between two users, one named "John Doe", and another
named "mmarkoe".

(Martin Markoe, a somewhat aggressive marketer of
microphones and other speech accessories from an
outfit called emicrophones.com)

Basis of the feud was the contention that marketing has
no place in a Usenet NG, and the other guys contention
that he was not really doing marketing, merely 'helping'
people who had speech-recognition problems.

I do not really care which one was "right".  Between them
they managed to destroy that NG, no serious users populate
that NG any more.

If we can put up with the likelihood of reviving that feud,
we have a place to discuss MacSpeech Dictate issues.

I suggest ignoring both parties to that feud, then perhaps
they will dry up and cease wasting everyone's time.

It  _might_  be worth a try, or not, I don't know.


BTW -
(forgive me Chuck for calling MacSpeech Dictate a "beta"
version, but that is exactly what it is in the minds of
knowledgeable speech-recognition users - - - a version
rushed to market without essential correction, spelling,
and documentation features in place)

Right now the only thing that 'Dictate 1.0 can compete with
is another "new" speech software from $MS called Vista speech
recognition, and I think that crappy Vista speech app' would
come out on top in a head-to-head shootout
with MacSpeech Dictate, due to the 'unfinished' nature of
MacSpeech Dictate 1.0


All the above rant is just my 3-cents worth, right now I want
to get back to playing with the "text macro" capabilities
of MacSpeech Dictate, I have that feature half-ways working.


Final Remarks for prospective future users:

In my opinion MacSpeech Dictate 1.0 is a good product,
i.e. the main part of it that is completed thus far.

It has the potential to be a GREAT product, when much needed
features are added as future free upgrades.

It is well worth buying in its present unfinished state,
because like any specialized app' it will take new users
a fairly long time to learn all the 'tricks' to make it
useful to  _them_ .

By that time, the free upgrades should be created by
MacSpeech, and Mac users will then have a jump-start to really
put MacSpeech Dictate through its paces, thanks to our
early adoption of the present version.

Why should Windows users be the only ones with great speech
applications - - - support MacSpeech, then we Mac users might
have the same great speech technology for ourselves.

Ignore MacSpeech's heroic efforts, then for sure we will have
to wind up using PCs/Windows when we need serious dictation
projects that need doing.  The choice is ours.

Mark-

On Mar 29, 10:50=A0pm, Mark Conrad <non...@urbusiness.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <0c6efb02-272a-4340-bcf2-6506dfa69...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> =A0frangelicafrangel...@gmail.com wrote: 
> 
> 
>
> Good for you, Frangelica, I like 'glass-half-full' reports
> like yours, they encourage Mac users to try this newly
> available Mac speech technology.
>
> (for Mac users that is, not for PC users,
> =A0 =A0who already have excellent speech tools)
>
> That said, it is absolutely critical that new users
> have access to all the documentation available that can
> help them master the glitches, gotchas, idiosyncrasies,
> quirks, and other molehills they will surely trip over
> in their attempts to get "acceptable" performance
> out of MacSpeech Dictate.
>
> As regards Chuck, he claims that MacSpeech no longer jumps
> when he barks.<g> =A0
>
> They should jump, because Chuck has his ear to the ground
> when it comes to the frustrating issues that bug those
> loyal customers who have stood by MacSpeech for years.
>
> ...stood by MacSpeech despite their inferior past products,
> and decided tendency to ignore their own customers when it
> comes to =A0_which_ =A0features are most important.
>
> But there I go, tending to look at a half-empty glass.
>
> Beating up MacSpeech will get us nowhere.
>
> What is needed most right now is a free-for-all "place"
> where MacSpeech Dictate "issues" can be discussed,
> such things as "workarounds" to get the most out of the
> present beta version of 'Dictate, while we are spinning
> our wheels waiting for MacSpeech to upgrade the product to
> something that can compete head-to-head with Dragon.
>
> We need a non-moderated forum where dirty laundry can be
> hung out to dry, and where new users can get valuable tips
> about how to solve their most pressing speech problems.
>
> I suggest "commandeering" an already existing (unused)
> Usenet NG for this purpose, one named: =A0comp.speech.users
>
> That NG started out great, was a fine meeting place for
> Dragon PC users, but was recently destroyed by a nasty
> feud between two users, one named "John Doe", and another
> named "mmarkoe". =A0
>
> (Martin Markoe, a somewhat aggressive marketer of
> =A0 microphones and other speech accessories from an
> =A0 =A0 outfit called emicrophones.com)
>
> Basis of the feud was the contention that marketing has
> no place in a Usenet NG, and the other guys contention
> that he was not really doing marketing, merely 'helping'
> people who had speech-recognition problems.
>
> I do not really care which one was "right". =A0Between them
> they managed to destroy that NG, no serious users populate
> that NG any more.
>
> If we can put up with the likelihood of reviving that feud,
> we have a place to discuss MacSpeech Dictate issues.
>
> I suggest ignoring both parties to that feud, then perhaps
> they will dry up and cease wasting everyone's time.
>
> It =A0_might_ =A0be worth a try, or not, I don't know.
>
> BTW -
> (forgive me Chuck for calling MacSpeech Dictate a "beta"
> version, but that is exactly what it is in the minds of
> knowledgeable speech-recognition users - - - a version
> rushed to market without essential correction, spelling,
> and documentation features in place)
>
> Right now the only thing that 'Dictate 1.0 can compete with
> is another "new" speech software from $MS called Vista speech
> recognition, and I think that crappy Vista speech app' would
> come out on top in a head-to-head shootout
> with MacSpeech Dictate, due to the 'unfinished' nature of
> MacSpeech Dictate 1.0
>
> All the above rant is just my 3-cents worth, right now I want
> to get back to playing with the "text macro" capabilities
> of MacSpeech Dictate, I have that feature half-ways working.
>
> Final Remarks for prospective future users:
>
> In my opinion MacSpeech Dictate 1.0 is a good product,
> i.e. the main part of it that is completed thus far.
>
> It has the potential to be a GREAT product, when much needed
> features are added as future free upgrades.
>
> It is well worth buying in its present unfinished state,
> because like any specialized app' it will take new users
> a fairly long time to learn all the 'tricks' to make it
> useful to =A0_them_ .
>
> By that time, the free upgrades should be created by
> MacSpeech, and Mac users will then have a jump-start to really
> put MacSpeech Dictate through its paces, thanks to our
> early adoption of the present version.
>
> Why should Windows users be the only ones with great speech
> applications - - - support MacSpeech, then we Mac users might
> have the same great speech technology for ourselves.
>
> Ignore MacSpeech's heroic efforts, then for sure we will have
> to wind up using PCs/Windows when we need serious dictation
> projects that need doing. =A0The choice is ours.
>
> Mark-

Thanks for the perspective.  Although I am in full sympathy for those
who those frustrated people who received a bad disk copy and aren't
getting quick replacements from MacSpeech, those of us who have good
copies need to get on with the "beta" testing if that is what we are.
It will only help those people when they get their good disk and those
people who buy new copies.

I can see a future for this product and hope that it continues to
develop.  Meanwhile - I hesitate to say this - "good enough" to be
useable.

I would support setting up a discussion site, either as you suggested
or as a Yahoo or Google group.  I was actually hoping that MacSpeech
would offer such as discussion site, much as Apple does.  It would be
to their benefit.

I have been monitoring all the sites that are open to comment and have
been contributing.  But I am surprised at the lack of discussion so
far.

I have no expertise in application installation problems, my program
worked right out of the box.  But I do have an interest in useage and
am willing to contribute whatever I have figured out.

You are right on - we won't get anywhere by beating up MacSpeech.

Frangelica

In article
<3203dc8f-00d3-4ae9-9251-0e7f9b7f6596@c26g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
frangelicafrangelica@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for the perspective.  Although I am in full sympathy
> for those who those frustrated people who
> received a bad disk copy...<clip>...



I don't think it's so much getting a bad disk, instead I think it is
just stumbling over the basics of speech recognition. For a sample,
right now I am dictating this text into MacSpeech Dictate, and having
little difficulty at all getting fairly legible copy.




However, here is a bad test to put MacSpeech Dictate to -

Bill
Salo
fellow
hello
Jell-O
Millwall
yellow



Exact same test again -

Bill
so all
fellow
hello
Joel
Millwall
yellow



(turned off the microphone now so I can explain
what is going on in the 2 examples above)


Namely, I had a list of similar sounding words, here is
the CORRECT list of words I spoke into MacSpeech Dictate:

bellow
cello
fellow    CORRECT
hello       LIST
Jell-O        FOR 2 PREVIOUS TESTS
mellow
yellow

'Dictate got half of those words wrong in the 2 tests above.

I do not know WHERE it got "Millwall" from, it is not even
a word according to the Mac OS X dictionary.

Needless to say, Dragon on a Vista partition got ALL of that
list dead right, because Dragon has no trouble with slightly
different sounding words.

When MacSpeech adds correction features, it should perform
every bit as well as Dragon does.



(okay, I will presently turn the microphone on briefly
for one more quick test on a word that I know that
MacSpeech Dictate has a lot of trouble with,
namely the word "cello" - - -
which is pronounced "CHEL-LO") - "hard" CH, as in "change"

I will speak that same word "cello" 9 separate times:

(turning microphone on now)

Jell-O
shallow
Joel
shallow
you will
well
show
sure will
Joe

(turned the microphone off now for the rest of this post)

What a mess.  Can't you imagine how unhappy a new user
would be when he finds that his $200 bought that sort
of performance!   Not one "cello" in the whole bunch.

Again, the Dragon software yielded 9 perfect "cello" rep's.

'Dictate should also, when the upgrades ship.


Oh, one last thing, at the very first of this post MacSpeech made
one tiny mistake:

"For a sample, right now I am"    S/B   "For example, right now I am"


Mark-

--
Much more to discuss, but let's face it, presently dictation
software holds little attraction for most Mac users, so I will
move the bulk of my comments to that unused "comp.speech.users"
newsgroup, to test the waters there, so to speak.

Hopefully, perhaps the feud there will subside somewhat.

<frangelicafrangelica@gmail.com> wrote:


> Thanks for the perspective.  Although I am in full sympathy for those
> who those frustrated people who received a bad disk copy and aren't
> getting quick replacements from MacSpeech, those of us who have good
> copies need to get on with the "beta" testing if that is what we are.
> It will only help those people when they get their good disk and those
> people who buy new copies.
>
> I can see a future for this product and hope that it continues to
> develop.  Meanwhile - I hesitate to say this - "good enough" to be
> useable.
>
> I would support setting up a discussion site, either as you suggested
> or as a Yahoo or Google group.  I was actually hoping that MacSpeech
> would offer such as discussion site, much as Apple does.  It would be
> to their benefit.
>
> I have been monitoring all the sites that are open to comment and have
> been contributing.  But I am surprised at the lack of discussion so
> far.
>
> I have no expertise in application installation problems, my program
> worked right out of the box.  But I do have an interest in useage and
> am willing to contribute whatever I have figured out.
>
> You are right on - we won't get anywhere by beating up MacSpeech.
>
> Frangelica

Also, some venders are out of stock - Small Dog for one.
--
Never believe anything until it's officially denied.