[LogoForum] Re: LOGO and C++

The message below is being cross-posted from LogoForum.


--- In LogoForum@yahoogroups.com, TEO CHA <teo64x@y...> wrote:
 

> I don't know any. That's because Logo is old, slow and
> interpreted.

Was does `old' have to do with slow?

As computer speeds increase, the applications
which run on them manifest an increase in speed as
well.  Modern implementations have had to slow
down graphics so that individual operations are
visible rather than go streaming by in a flurry of
activity.
Have you ever seen Elica present some of the
3D grapics in it's 400+ `museum' of included files?
Try running the one called `Spirocycloidal Rose' if
you'd like to dispell your belief that there is
something intrinsically slow about an application
having `Logo' in it's name.
(BTW.  There are several other members of the Lisp
family which have a name in their title which
misleads one into thinking their something else.
To wit, LispMe and Xlisp 3.0 are both implementations
of Scheme ... not Lisp)

 
>
> Neither do I. I create programs in Logo that are used
> by me and help me do for free some things I could do
> with many "complete/marketable" programs if I had
> bought them.

Ditto.
And because I create programs that are used by me
I am not limitied to `popular' or statistically
`normal' languages.  Thus I can engage in the
abhorrent behavior of programming in Logo, scheme,
AutoLisp, Emacs Lisp or whatever my statistically
deviant `heart' may desire.

> I don't know C++ at all, but I think that there is a
> source kit at Softronix.com:
> http://www.softronix.com/download/mswlogosource65.zip
>
> I'm sure that someone here knows how to program in
> C++. Although I cannot fully understand why does
> he/she care about Logo :) I think that he/she can
> modify MSWLogo to make it just a little better.
>
> I'm going to start some lessons in C++ and I hope that
> I will be able, some time, to improve Logo (add JPEG
> saving and loading procedures, for example, or remove
> the Cancel button from the dialogs [I've already done
> that!] because it causes errors, etc).
>
> But Logo will remain slow and inappropriate for
> "complete/marketable" applications until, AT LEAST, a
> compiler is made.
>
> Furthermore, I believe that because Logo is programmed
> in C++, it should have MORE capabilities. For example,
> there is only ONE type of window created with
> WINDOWCREATE. In Visual Basic, you can call it a Fixed
> Dialog without Control Box. Why? Why can't Logo
> change, for example, the caption of a window in
> run-time? C++ can do much, why can't Logo do them?

I concur with your sentiment that such an
implementation of Logo should have MORE
capabilities.  In fact -- okay, mere opinion -- I
feel that such an implementation should have ALL
the features of the underlying lower-level(s)
language(s).
If folks in the Logo community could learn
from folks in the greater lisp community (Lisp,
scheme, Logo) they would be well served to
see how a couple of scheme implementations were
manifested as add-on packages for c or c++
compilers.  By implementing a language this way a
wiz-bang programmer has all the features of BOTH
languages. ELK
<http://www-rn.informatik.uni-bremen.de/software/elk/>
is one such package.  Bigloo <http://www-
sop.inria.fr/mimosa/fp/Bigloo/> is a ready-made
synthesis of c and scheme.

Here's a scenario for you.  As scheme allows one
to implement dynamic binding (sample code found in
SICP <http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/> ) it seems
that an implementation of Logo could be
implemented via Scheme.  As Scheme may be either
translated into C (EG via scheme-to-c
<http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-
repository/ai/lang/scheme/impl/scheme2c/0.html> )
or comingled with C, as with Bigloo, an
implementation of Logo *could* emerge with
features which *might* allow one to `call' upon
the features and functions of one or more of the
supporting languages ... scheme, c, assembly.
One such scenario would entail the implementation of a Logo REPL via
ELK scheme.
As ELK is implemented as c programmnig language procedure calls and
the Logo
procedures/words would be implemented as scheme procedures, a
programmer working
in this polyglot environment would have access to Logo, Scheme, and
C ... thus
resulting in the `MORE capabilities' you expressed and interest.


All for this one.
Gene

; (progn (mail-mode)(set-fill-column 50)(font-lock-mode)(auto-fill-
mode))






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