Confessions of a CoBOL programmer

In article <d789160e-c53f-4eb3-85c3-c85c2abdd6f6@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.co
m>,
Alistair  <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 28 Mar, 21:47, docdw...@panix.com () wrote: 
><ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, 
>
>As a man who has consistently avoided promotion to management you
>should realise that that is a no-no.

As a man who has seen a bit of the business world I come to believe there
is a difference between 'I can find no (x)' and 'I can find no (x) which
cost less than (amount)'.

>
>?_Have they offered programmers in 
>
>
>The java programmers aren't interested.

The next batch might be when it is made a hiring-requirement.

DD

On 28 Mar, 22:06, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
>
> 'How many of you think that all men are mortal?' (hands up)
> 'How many of you think that Socrates is a man?' (hands up)
> 'How many of you think that Socrates is mortal?' =A0'Uh..... maybe I was
> wrong when I said I thought all men are mortal... or maybe Socrates isn't
> a man now.'

Tsk! Tsk! Even you should know better than to ask these questions.

Men ARE mortal.
Socrates WAS a man.
Socrates has been proven to be mortal (for most peoples' value of
PROVEN).

>
>
> 
> 
>
> What I attempted to demonstrate, Mr Brazee, was that the logical abilities=[/color
]

> demonstrated by some folks in Corporate America can reach levels of
> refusing to accept things which 'follow of necessity'.
>
> (note - Aristotle, Prior Analytics, Book I, Part 1, paragraph 4, sentence
> 1: 'A syllogism is discourse in which, certain things being stated,
> something other than what is stated follows of necessity from their being
> so. I mean by the last phrase that they produce the consequence, and by
> this, that no further term is required from without in order to make the
> consequence necessary.' -http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/prior.mb.txt)

Have you been a student of philosophy or should I be enquiring as to
how you can afford the time to research all of your answers? Not that
answering a question (or non-question) with a question is indeed an
answer.

On 29 Mar, 00:12, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> In article <ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.=[/color
]
com>,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Alistair <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
a...
> 
> 
> 
id 
% 
> 
> 
, 
> 
> 
>
> What's wrong with programmers over 50?
>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. =
=A0Three wolves
> billg...@cs.scranton.edu | =A0and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton =A0 |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 #include <std.disclaimer.h> =
=A0- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nothing, just that YOU are all  old opinionated gits!

In article <92694c30-327e-42b4-9026-3adcea8d0b3f@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.co
m>,
Alistair  <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 28 Mar, 22:06, docdw...@panix.com () wrote: 
>
>Tsk! Tsk! Even you should know better than to ask these questions.
>
>Men ARE mortal.
>Socrates WAS a man.
>Socrates has been proven to be mortal (for most peoples' value of
>PROVEN).

Mr Maclean, might it be possible that the questions I posed referred to a
Socrates who is still alive today?  The name is not unique, last I looked.

[snip]
 
>
>Have you been a student of philosophy or should I be enquiring as to
>how you can afford the time to research all of your answers?

I have read a few things on the backs of several cereal-boxes here and
there, Mr Maclean... no, wait, Prior Analytics would be on the front, on
the back one should find Posterior Analytics.  This wonderful web-thingie
allows for rapid research and citing, yes... but the old form of 'Author,
Title, (publisher, edition, printing), book, chapter, section, paragraph,
sentence, word' for citing was one I learned long before it existed.

DD

"Alistair" <alistair@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d789160e-c53f-4eb3-85c3-c85c2abdd6f6@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On 28 Mar, 21:47, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
> In article
> <ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Alistair <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> Have they tried doubling their rates?

As a man who has consistently avoided promotion to management you
should realise that that is a no-no.

? Have they offered programmers in
> other languages training in COBOL... with a bonus and pay-rise upon
> completion of the course so they don't get hired away?
>


The java programmers aren't interested.

Just like automotive engineers don't want to learn how to shoe a horse.

On 28 Mar, 21:47, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
> In article <ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.=[/color
]
com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Alistair =A0<alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: 
> 
a...
> 
> 
> 
id 
% 
> 
> 
, 
> 
> 
>
> Have they tried doubling their rates? =A0Have they offered programmers in
> other languages training in COBOL... with a bonus and pay-rise upon
> completion of the course so they don't get hired away?
>

I suspect that the Java programmers would walk out en masse if offered
the opportunity to retrain.

On 29 Mar, 00:12, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> In article <ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.=[/color
]
com>,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Alistair <alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
a...
> 
> 
> 
id 
% 
> 
> 
, 
> 
> 
>
> What's wrong with programmers over 50?
>

Nothing. 50 is a good age to be (just coming into my prime).

On 29 Mar, 01:13, docdw...@panix.com () wrote:
> In article <92694c30-327e-42b4-9026-3adcea8d0...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.=[/color
]
com>,
>
> Alistair =A0<alist...@ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote: 
> 
s 
't 
> 
> 
>
> Mr Maclean, might it be possible that the questions I posed referred to a
> Socrates who is still alive today? =A0The name is not unique, last I looke=[/color
]
d.

Now you come to mention it, I do recall seeing a Socrates playing
football (soccer to you, and I don't know which team he played for
either). Conceivably there may be many female Socrates too.

 
>
> I have read a few things on the backs of several cereal-boxes here and
> there, Mr Maclean... no, wait, Prior Analytics would be on the front, on
> the back one should find Posterior Analytics. =A0This wonderful web-thingi=[/color
]
e
> allows for rapid research and citing, yes... but the old form of 'Author,
> Title, (publisher, edition, printing), book, chapter, section, paragraph,
> sentence, word' for citing was one I learned long before it existed.

So it is down to t'web and not any edikashun you have been subjected
to? I suppose answering an answer with a question is no question/
answer either.

docdwarf@panix.com wrote:
>
> As a man who has seen a bit of the business world I come to believe
> there
> is a difference between 'I can find no (x)' and 'I can find no (x)
> which
> cost less than (amount)'.

Put it another way: "There is no shortage of  COBOL programmers; there's
only a shortage of CHEAP COBOL programmers."

Alistair wrote:
 
>
> I suspect that the Java programmers would walk out en masse if offered
> the opportunity to retrain.

Yeah. It's hard to do FLAMES in COBOL.