Re: OT Embryonic stem cell research was Re: OT: McCain's religion was

Whilst I generally agree with your stance on stem cell research and
foetus based research I do have some observations/comments - see
below.

On 25 Mar, 01:58, "Pete Dashwood" <dashw...@removethis.enternet.co.nz>
wrote:

> But, as you observe, we need embryos to do this investigation and it doesn
't
> seem "right" to produce embryos purely for experiment.
>
> I've given this considerable thought.
>
> Here's my personal take on it; it might help some people, others may be
> outraged by it...
>
> Few of us think of sperm as potential people (masturbation would have to
> cease immediately if we did... :-)), and an ovum is not a person either. S
o,
> we obviously have no problem with gametes; it's when they become a zygote
> that it gets tricky.
>
> If an embryo is "manufactured" in a laboratory by causing the fusion of tw
o
> donated gametes, then I believe we don't need to think of what's in that
> test tube as a person, or even as a potential person, even though that is,
> in fact what the contents are...

Unfortunately, with the ability to implant a zygote into  a surrogate
mother's womb (and I would guess the use of artificial wombs and
artificially supported wombs for incubation) and given advances being
made in supporting life at earlier stages (prior to 22 ws) there
are many people who would claim that their narrow view on morality
supercedes your liberal view and would demand a cesation on
experimentation.

>
> It's a bit like eating meat. When a lamb or a rabbit is running round and
> you are stroking it and playing with it, it is an entity and you relate to
> it, and enjoy its company. When it is served on a plate, it is not that
> entity any more, it is simply "food". It tastes no less delicious because
> you knew it personally.

A lot of people have turned vegetarian when faced with the reality
that flopsy casserole was once a beautiful ickle-wickle-bunny-wabbit.

>
> We require sustenance and are designed to eat other life forms (both plant
> and animal;

If Judsons god had intended us to be vegetarians then why did he make
meat taste so good (especially bacon)?

> I don't see people getting choked up and emotional because they
> sliced up a baby tomato...yet the plant life is just as "alive" as the
> animal life in this place.)

Plants don't have big cute eyes.

>
> So, for me at least, if it came from a test tube, it can be experimented o
n
> and we can make as many of them as we need to do that.

I don't quite agree. Whilst I believe that this is an issue for
science alone and that the uneducated and religious factions should be
banned from the discussion I do believe that there should not be
unrestricted generation of foetuses for experimentation any more than
I believe that the numbers of animals used in vivisection should be
unlimited.

I will grant that there should be no limit on cell lines derived from
blastomas, once the ball inverts or begins developing a nervous system
then there should be limits imposed.

>
> We gladly donate our organs and corneas etc. in the event of accident,

I believe that the figure, in the UK, is that 2% of the population has
agreed to be organ donors (myself included).



> The emotional pain being caused over it is largely self induced and based 
on
> belief systems that were never designed to deal with modern scientific
> possibility.
>
> We need to change our minds and perceptions about what is "living" and wha
t
> isn't, what can be useful and what can't, and why we would want to inhibit
> the acquisition and growth of knowledge that can help untold numbers of
> future people.
>
> Next time you get emotional about stem cell research, think about children
> struggling to breathe, parents and loved ones who don't even recognise the
ir
> own children, mothers with cancer who are undergoing chemotherapy and
> radiation, devastating their bodies, when, if we had the knowledge, their
> tumours could be attacked at source by cells developed specifically for th
at
> purpose.
>
> That makes more sense to me than bewailing the "sinful" loss of a cell
> collection that was going nowhere anyway.
Agreed.